Are you noticing in today’s lending climate, most all lenders look, sound, and think the same? Maybe you are trying to grow your business or real estate investing and you don’t know how and what lending options are available to you?

Today’s guest, Billy Brown, an Amazon Bestselling Author for Success Habits of Super Achievers, syndicator, investor, strategist, and creative lender, talks with Brian Covey about these things and how to get those questions answered. Billy went from being a pro golfer to entering the mortgage industry back in 2008: and we all know how 2008 went in the real estate and mortgage industry!

Between his bestselling book, mortgage success, and his new venture as creator of The Golf Sanctuary, he has built a model of how not to give up through failures!


Pickup Brian’s new book, “Conversations with Covey”:

Listen to the podcast here:


Billy Brown: Unflinching Failure

This one’s exciting because I’ve got my good friend, Billy Brown, here in Nashville. We probably could have done this in person, but with our schedules, it’s probably hard enough with all this guy has going on. He is an Amazon bestseller. You’ll hear more about his book but also, we both overlap and play in the commercial, the residential and all the lending space. For all my real estate, mortgage and investor friends, you’re going to love some of the things that we will cover in this episode but also, Billy has a cool project that he’ll be talking about with The Golf Sanctuary. We go into some things about leadership. You guys are going to dig it. Billy, welcome from the new office.

Brian, thanks so much. It’s good to chat with you and I’m glad to be on your show.

You’ve been one of the guests. I knew you were going to get on at some point. We’ve gone on all these directions and it’s like life and then business and the whole bicep thing. It’s an interesting journey. I’m a few weeks into this thing and not only is it humbling but how many lessons I’ve learned. I’ve had to almost completely overhaul training, but how I am able to do things with the kids and it’s funny how life throws you a curveball.

The older we get, things break down in the weirdest ways and you have to adapt and adjust.

That was something my ortho told me, which is interesting. I’ll tie it into the conversation. He was like, “Brian, mentally and physically in a lot of ways, you may still be young. You may feel good and you’re in good shape. You got a great mental attitude. You’re strong, but guess what? You’re looking at some tendons. They’ve had some miles put on them, literally.” I know that’s there. Let’s talk about this a little bit. Let’s open to The Golf Sanctuary because that’s your baby and your project. A lot of people may not know about what you’re doing, but maybe why you started that and a little background into what’s happening with that.

This has been a passion project of mine for years trying to figure out how to go and do it. Everyone knows me from lending and real estate investing. I do have a background in golf, playing at Oklahoma State on the team there and a little bit of professional golf. I spent a lot of money. I always say I’m a failed professional golfer. There are a lot of learning experiences there, but I knew there was an opportunity to do a virtual golf club in Nashville. I didn’t know how to put it together. We syndicated an apartment complex. We bought an office complex. In 2019 coming out of surgery, those opioids are kicking in and I’m going, “What can I do next as far as investment?” The apartments are too squeezed on the cap rates and I said, “Call it Sanctuary.” Marry real estate with golf and with your passion on how to syndicate stuff. Let’s do it.

We started going down that path. We’re all excited and then in March 2020, I wanted to do this launch and learn again. I got 25 people in the room. They were all excited and guess what happened? I got T-boned the night of the tornado that killed a whole bunch of people in East Nashville. That took my room down to 6 people from 25. My launch was a failure. A couple of weeks, we lost power for four days and then COVID-19 hits. I’m like, “This a sign. I should not do this?” In lending it was like, “It’s all good. I’ll send it.” All of a sudden, it wasn’t going good. I will say this, “Screw it.” You’ve got to do something. Lending may not be around. You don’t know what’s going to happen. You got to have some alternatives there. I was like, “I’m not going to go down without swinging. If you’re going to go do it, do it now. Let’s go do it.” I went and did it. It’s been a push for the last couple of years working on this thing. We are a few months away from getting the permits for a place down in Cool Springs, and it’s absolutely killer.

We’ve got so many friends here, too, in Nashville into golf. People may not understand the virtual side of it, did you have that idea? Had you seen that somewhere? How did that come about that you’re like, “Let’s put this together?”

Sometimes you do make the same mistake twice, sometimes three times, but you keep on learning. Click To Tweet

I used to play a lot because I was a former professional. You play and practice and all of a sudden, you have a family, a job, a business, investing and now you don’t have that time luxury anymore. You’re time-poor and then we play golf, guess what you have? It’s golf guilt. Golf guilt’s a thing. We want to provide for our families very much and be part of their lives. We know especially young kids, mine is younger than yours but you want to be there for their formative years. You spend five hours away from them and you feel guilty about doing what you are going to do. With this, you need a lot of time and technology can do that. It’s not a replacement. It’s an extension. We all have this thing in Nashville called weather, where they can pop up storm and rain year-round when you do have time. There are a few people moving to Nashville. We have plenty of houses. We have plenty of real estate. We have more golfers moving here and no more golf courses. All the golf courses here in Nashville are full. Even the private ones or the public ones are full on a waiting list. Where are you going to go?

You solved the problem and that’s what I love. I’d love to pick your brain because we’ve had a lot of athletes and people on. I love this from my soccer days but playing golf was always fascinating and I’ve had some friends. The mental side of that game and anything that you’ve taken from that maybe into business, what did you learn? Playing at a college level is not easy. I watched some of these guys and I’m going, “There is no chance would they let me on their team.” What did you learn as you went through that? You played at a high enough level that not many people get to. Are there any takeaways that you’ve taken into business or leadership from golf?

The biggest one is you can’t flinch at failure. Failure is part of success and you have to go through it. How many times do you see golfers, even Tiger and the best players out there don’t have every fairway every green? You have to go scramble and find opportunities and find ways to make it happen. It’s the same thing with us in the business world. We’re crafty enough. Failure doesn’t stop me. In fact, I call myself a professional failure. There’s a quote out there that says, “What would you do if you knew that you could never fail in anything he did?” It’s like, “That’s not the question we are asking.” The question is, “What would you do if you knew wild success was on the opposite side of your failure? How many times would you fail?”

That’s the question we ask ourselves. There’s never been a success in anything I’ve done. You keep on failing. John Maxwell says, “Failing Forward.” You learn and sometimes you do make the same mistake twice. Sometimes three times, but you keep on learning. It looks a little different but you do learn and you learn from the tribe of people that you surround yourself with. You ask a lot of questions and you humble yourself going, “Brian, I’ve got a situation. This is going crazy. I need you to step back. I need you to be my sounding board. Here it is.” Sometimes you solve it is by having a sounding board. Sometimes it’s like, “Let’s do this one pivot and there you go.”

You mentioned a couple of folks and also Maxwell. We were talking about Bob Burg. That was somebody that came in and The Go-Giver. Some people may not even know him.

I don’t have the book here with me but the next book we released, I co-authored it with Bob Burg, one of my favorite authors with The Go-Giver. That’s so cool.

Somebody gave me The Go-Giver a few years ago and I remember I was like, “Hold on.” You’d have these mentors and people in your life like the John Maxwells and then you’ve got obviously like Bob Burg and Bob Goff would be one. Who are some other people that you’re learning from or helped shaped you as a person? I’m curious as to who you’re reading and listening to?

BCS 46 | Commercial Lending

Commercial Lending: There’s a right way to push the limit. It’s not the progress but the speed of that progress which is pushing the limits.


I’ll tell you this one. You’ll love this one. I’ll say this and I’ll pivot over to the business side. I was back home for Memorial Day cleaning out all the stuff from my golf days. I was going through the archives like you do. You are reliving the glory days and all that. I was looking for an article that I had with Dan Rooney, who’s the Founder of Folds of Honor. We grew up together, and I knew there was a picture someplace. We’re doing an event here in Nashville with Folds of Honor to benefit them. I knew there was an article someplace. I couldn’t find that one, but what I found was a handwritten letter from Coach Eddie Sutton when I signed for the Oklahoma State. It was signed by him saying, “Welcome to Oklahoma State.”

I didn’t even know I had that. We are talking about the people that influenced you. It’s not the business leaders, “I read this book and I’m so great.” It’s the coaches. As an athlete, your coaches and your teammates influence you the most. I grew up at Oklahoma State University, where I was a golfer and wrestler at heart because my dad’s passion was in wrestling. The National Wrestling Hall of Fame is in Stillwater and I know all those guys. I interned at the Olympic Training Center. I was probably the first golfer at the Olympic Training Center, by the way. I didn’t have a business being there but I was there. You hang around people where your expectations are up here.

At Oklahoma State University, there’s no question. “You’re going for a National Championship.” Your State Championships were nothing. Everyone had 2 or 3 or 4 of those. This is about National Championship gold medals. That’s where you’re striving to. That mentality going forward propelled me into like, “Everything that you do is not about the average or mediocre.” Your expectations as far as your minimum are higher than anyone else’s. It’s a little weird but you know that as an athlete. The stuff that you do, especially what you see on Facebook, you’re like, “No wonder you tore your damn bicep, Brian. You shouldn’t be doing that stuff at your age.”

That’s what they say. There are things and my wife will say this. I don’t know these other speeds that people talk about. I never wanted to be average. I’ve never been okay with it. I’m probably on the side of a little bit of risk. I don’t mind trying new things and getting injured growing up as an athlete. I’m sure even in golf, you see people get injured and all this stuff but you have been training and all. Things could happen. It’s like in business. “I make a decision. I may lose money on this deal. I don’t want to, but I’ll make money over on this deal.” Back to your point of the failures and lessons that come through. I soak all those up because, without those, I don’t know what’s on the other side of it. I never know my potential unless I’ve pushed the limit. Sometimes I push the limit a little too much.

There’s a right way of pushing the limit and it’s not the progress of it. It’s the speed of that progress, which is pushing the limits. How fast you put the accelerator down? Sometimes we push it too fast that our bodies and our minds are not able to catch up. There’s that balance of like, “How fast should we be going?” “We shouldn’t be going 120 on the highway. Maybe back it down to 85.” That’s probably okay.

I think that’s what we all are trying to learn is like where is that pace? You have to have a little bit of that tension. I found that in my life and even as it translates. I’m sure for you. You got family. You got a Golf Sanctuary. You guys are working on another book. It sounds like you’ve got all these things cooking but then you have your primary business. I’m sure people will want to know, how did you go from golfing and college and then move into your career now? I know some of it but I don’t know that trajectory because we have some readers and I love it because they have kids in high school or college. I love the question, “How did you get into the mortgage business?” How did you get into lending and everything you’re doing now?

I was trying to get back on tour back in 2008. I failed miserably the first couple of times that I tried it. I moved to Nashville. I got fired from a couple of jobs and I was like, “I’m still single. I’m going to try and give it a shot.” This was probably the spring of 2008. I played golf with the owner of Churchill Mortgage. My car looked great. I was playing pretty good then, and I put together a little business plan and showed it to him going, “I need this much money and I need three years to go do it.” We’ve back and forth for a while he’s like, “I want to do it, it’s like a business. Here’s what it’s going to look like.”

Don’t limit yourself to what’s inside your knowledge base. Go outside of it. Click To Tweet

By the way, you’re going to fail half the time that you’re out there and you’re trying to bank on two weeks of making great checks to jump to the next level. Out of your 52 weeks, you now have two weeks. It was a real good business plan. It was great for stability. I got some great stories. He was gracious and said, “I’ll do it.” I said, “How much of it?” He goes, “All of it.” I was like, “You got to be kidding me?” I am off to the races and by the time we agreed on this, it was about August of 2008, and guess what happened? What happened in August 2008, Brian? Do you remember?

It was painful. I tell people the stories of what happened. You had to live it to have known the collapse of all collapses.

In the mortgage world, there’s plenty of money there in July of 2008.

Do you remember the Implode-o-Meter?


Companies going out of business and people are out of homes. It was wild.

This is freaky. Needless to say that, plus the election, he had to pull back. I didn’t know how to raise capital back then. He was good, “I can do a little bit of this but not all of it. You have to raise the rest of it.” I was like, “I’m not going to go out there with my gas tank 1/3 of the way full.” I got to go all or nothing. I tried a few things on my own and it didn’t work out. There’s a story I wrote about being so broke and broken. You had to take the knife and go, “There’s a dream.” I had $5 total to my name. I was so broke that an ex-girlfriend’s mom sent me $500. I still have the letter. I emailed her. I said, “I’ll clean toilets. I just need something.”

BCS 46 | Commercial Lending

Commercial Lending: The people that are lending have a lot of say in the game.


That was 2009 and that was a whole other shift. He said, “Wait until March. We will get some new stuff out. We’ll bring you on board.” He taught me how to be a residential lender. Fast forward, I did pretty good for all that change going on because you didn’t know what your compensation was going to be from minute to minute. I hung out for about five years then I figured out that my creativity as an athlete did not match within the bounds of residential lending. I figured out that commercial lending was where I needed to be. There are a whole lot more opportunities and creativity allowed in the commercial space and I got to work with real estate investors that dealt with abundance, creating wealth and leveraging debt in the right way.

I’m not going to give it a whole Dave Ramsey thing either right here but how you use it. The lenders are your partner and your friend. How to go do that the right way to buy massive assets and create cashflow and great wealth for yourself, your investors and generations to come. I was like, “That’s so cool.” Once you tap into that world and I was like, “It was so much fun.” I started teaching on this because no one teaches on this. You’d do a great job on teaching on residential stuff but no one teaches on commercial. “How do you do a commercial loan?” No one knows. It’s a mystery but I teach it.

You’ve got that heart of educating, which we all come from that place. We’ve made enough mistakes and seen enough markets to where I feel like it’s a little bit of responsibility when you’ve seen these markets. I got into the business in 2001. I’ve seen lots of this and you ride the waves. I love how you’re educating people now. Where do you go now to educate yourself because I know you’re somebody people go to, but where do you go? I see you continue learning and growing. That’s part of why we created the show, too is how we learn and grow.

Where are some of the places that you go to learn and make sure you’re staying up to speed about lending creativity? How to build wealth and all these areas. I find a lot of people still go to Instagram, which you might find some people on Instagram. In all fairness, there might be people but let’s talk about it like for you. You’re doing some things that I know because we’ve personally worked together on stuff where I’m going, “I’m glad I have you in my corner and I have people, now I call it the team, to build wealth because you’re not going to get there just saving your way to wealth.”

First off, it goes back to The Go-Giver, being a resource to friends and going, “You had a problem and I had a solution. That saved you a lot of money.” I can’t tell you how much it was, but I know it was a lot of money. I think you’ve shared that with a few other friends to save them money. Had I not said things like, “If you’re not going to invest in my deal, Brian and whatever.” “No.” I was like, “You got a problem over here. Go talk to my friend.” Good things are going to happen because of that. It’s surrounding yourself with that tribe. I’m a sponsored career attributor to The Real Estate Guys Radio Show. They’ve been around for many years.

They do a lot of finance and I’ll say real estate on macroeconomics. They have guys on there like George Gan is going to be down in Belize. A lot of economists like Robert Kiyosaki are talking about gold, silver, oil and the whole macro world as well as lending. Tune in there. I’m going through my designation to get my CCIM pen. The three courses are about halfway through. Being around those groups is very influential and how you look at and analyze the deals in markets. The connections of folks going, “Here’s this.” The same thing on lenders. You talk to lenders every day. You’ll learn a lot. It’s amazing.

The people that are lending and let’s be honest. Lenders are lending you 70%, 75%, 80% of the money. They have a lot of say in the game and a lot of reasons why they’re going to lend you or not lend you money. If you start asking them questions, they’re going to tell you the truth and you know why. It’s pretty cool. You go, “You like this or you don’t like this over here and be like this over here. If I got you this over here that looked like this, you wouldn’t lend on this all day long.” “Absolutely.” “I will get rid of this?” You make life a lot easier.

It’s something I’ve told people. They’ll ask and you’ve got people that I’m sure asked for your advice. You nailed two things that I think are uber important for people. First, it’s surrounding yourself with the right people and that have knowledge and experience that you maybe don’t have and you can collaborate and connect with them. The second one is you’re continually learning. You’re adding a certification. I went back and I had somebody asked me, “Why are you going to do this certified mortgage advisor program?” I’m like, “It’s going to make me better at what I do. Why would I not do it?” They are like, “It’s all these hours, 10 hours, 12 hours or whatever it ends up being.” I’m like, “I’m in the mortgage game. Don’t I need to separate myself from others?” I’ve seen you do that. We’re continually going out to make sure you’re surrounding yourself with the right people. Continually learning and growing in your field. That’s the path to success. People didn’t get there by accident. We often see people that are successful and you work with a lot of these high net worth individuals. They’re still learning. They’re still asking for advice because they may know one area, but they don’t know all the areas.

Humble yourself. If you say you know everything, you’re an idiot. Click To Tweet

I got to the point where you don’t limit yourself inside your knowledge base. You go outside of it. The great thing about Golf Sanctuary and the races, it’s not a real estate play. In my world of real estate where I was like, “This is going to be easy.” It forced me into the non-real estate people, which is a whole another conversation going. I had to be exposed to my amateurism of not knowing that and being honest with them going, “I’ve never done this before, the real estate side. I can do apartment syndication in my sleep. This? No clue. Help me.” Humble yourself, ask for help but surround yourself with that tribe even within your world and not your world to be able to collaborate because you don’t know who other people are going to know to guide you and direct you. You’re always asking for help. That’s the cool thing. If you say you know everything, you’re an idiot. Be humble. I don’t know but I can ask questions. I’m a professional question asker. If you’re around me for any amount of time, I’m going to ask you more questions than a four-year-old.

Somebody gave me a book. It was The Question Behind the Question or something like that. That was the principle that a mentor of mine shared with me. I was like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “You asked one and two-layer questions. You need to go to the next level. Ask more questions.” I’ve noticed that about you. How does that help you in your business? A lot of people out there are reading and there are a lot of people in sales, whether they’re in real estate mortgage or not, but asking questions, whether you’re a parent. Now that I have a teenager, I realized that I’ve got to ask different questions. It’s like, “How do I stay engaged? How do I make sure that I’m relevant?” With the younger one, it’s very different questions. Usually, he’s asking the questions, by the way. How do you continually ask great questions? I see you do that even when we were working together on some things. How are you leveraging that? What does that look like for the people that maybe don’t understand what that would be?

BCS 46 | Commercial Lending

Commercial Lending: The worst thing that can happen is that you get a lender that says yes to everything.


In a bigger context, also known as commercial lending he worst thing that can happen is that you get a lender that says yes to everything, doesn’t dig deep because that’s a loan that you want. You then go, “I got my transaction. There’s my commission check. See you later. I’m never going to talk to you again.” We’re abundance people. I want to make sure that I can do your loan and I’m not going to put you in the worst position. Commercial lending is a lot of money, frustration and a lot of time. If we go down this path and if you and I figured out halfway through the transaction that this is not the right deal for you, we both lost.

I can’t get that time back and I’m not getting paid. I’m going to ask you questions on the frontend going, “Brian, you told me this. You said you want to replace your income in three years, yet you want to do passive investing. That’s not going to get you there,” or vice versa is, “I want to go double my money but I am a C-Suite person. I have no time, so I’m going to go flip houses.” You are already a high tax bracket person. You’re going to pay all your profit in taxes. You start having those conversations of, “What’s the desired outcome and why? Why is that? What problem does this solve?” You go, “Here’s the solution. This is going to produce this result over here.”

“Here’s what you’re trying to do. Those two do not match. I am going to be honest with you. I can do this transaction for you but you’re not going to be happy.” Let’s back this train up and go, “What is it that you want to accomplish here,” within your parameters because we only have two things, time and money. Time is the most precious one. You cannot get this time back. Now experience as an investment, you’re going to learn a lot through the process of failure. You have to go do that but if someone walks alongside you that’s already been there and going, “Brian, this is not for you.” The lender is your friend. You know this is a residential person. He’s going to tell you like, “Rejection is not bad. It’s good.”

He’s protecting you. The worst thing is a doctor that has a lot of money that has no experience. Some commercial lenders are going to sign off because they’re a doctor like, “Even if the thing doesn’t cashflow, this doctor makes a lot of money.” You subsidized one side for the other. A great commercial lender who’s also an investor can go look at this thing going, “Look at the net operating income. Look at this thing from a different perspective here. You’re going to put a lot of work into this. It is not going to cashflow for 4 or 5 years. In 4 or 5 years, it may get to where you want to be but if you look at your numbers, your cash on cash is like 3%. Is that okay with you?” “Good. If you’re okay with 3%, I’ll give you 6% all day long.” You go sit on the beach someplace. I go take that 6% and give you back 12% because I know how to do that. I’m going to save you a lot of time and frustration because this thing is not going perform because it actually can perform at like 1.5%. Me and my team can go put that into play as far as their debt play or another investment that’s going to double your money. That’s what it boils down to. It is truly identifying exactly what they want.

That’s the advisor piece that we talk about all the time. The difference between these transactional folks that in our worlds are and will continue to get weeded out because people want a relationship. They want the advice. They want the advisor and to your point, they want a friend that’s going to walk through, understand, ask the questions and make sure that we’ve got the full picture because, without that, we’re throwing out generic. It’s like you come to a restaurant and I tell you the specials. It’s like, “I hope you’re going to pick one of them.” Why not get to know the person, understand what they like, what they’re looking for, what are they in the mood for? All these things we take for granted.

I love how you’ve approached your business and this will tie it all together. You’re doing all these things. This is something I admire and I look for, especially when we have guests on or people that I get to know. It’s like, “None of us need to be identified by our job.” That is boring. Your legacy will be next to nothing because we’ll come along, do your job better and probably different than you do. This is a question I always get with the dads that come on and the family guys. How are you balancing all that? You’ve got all these projects going on. You’re trying to still expand. I feel like that both of us were in expansive years of our lives. Any advice you would give out there as to how you’re continually balancing those things out?

Throw away the idea of balance. There’s no such thing. Click To Tweet

The first thing is to throw away the idea of balance. There’s no such thing. Here’s what’s in it for you right now. This goes back to the time-blocking. We all-time block as professionals. Right now, this is Brian and Billy’s time talking about business. At 5:00, it’s my wife and Charlotte’s time. That’s what we’re doing. The phone is mostly off and for sure, I put my phone in a different room at 7:00. It’s on do not disturb. Everyone knows that. At 6:00, if people need something, they text me, I can text them back. I’m calling them the next day. The first thing there is the time-blocking going, “Here is the time I’m doing this,” especially you got family and two other businesses, plus by real estate investing. You have to go maybe time block.

I have an assistant that helps me time block. He puts stuff in my calendar going, “This is what you’re focusing on at this time.” It takes a little bit of discipline to go rewire your brain from Golf Sanctuary to commercial lending to real estate investing. You need about five minutes to go flush on something different. We can all do it. Also, include your family in the process. That’s what makes it fun. If you’re going to silo yourself and that showed up at work and now it’s back home, you want to have a conversation with them and let them learn what’s going on. My wife’s active in real estate investing as well as Golf Sanctuary because she has a skillset as a comptroller. She’s good at finance and HR.

I have no idea what that stuff is. I know that she gets paid. I know that happens. She’s going to help set that up for our people. I’m like, “We got to pay people. How do we do that? I don’t know.” You surround yourself with the right people and including them in your day-to-day life and then also set the time-blocking and knowing that when you’re gone, you explain to them why you’re gone. One, we’re going to Belize, so that’s pretty cool, including everybody. You then go to like Phoenix. We’re part of the inner circles of several groups to be able to collaborate. Sometimes we include Charlotte, sometimes we don’t. It’s like, “We’re gone because of this. When you’re older, you’ll understand.” We’re bringing in the family to watch the kids, so it’s not a loss of moments. She knows what we’re doing and because of her, we’re getting better. We can make her better because of our experiences.

The two big principles I talk about often, you nailed it. The time-blocking and being in the moment where you are there and the other was integration. I love how you said that because we do that with fitness or taking our kids to church and different things that we can have conversations. We go to soccer games together. You can get a lot done when you integrate together. To your point, it used to be and I feel like that was maybe where we all grew up, where you had people that went and did silo stuff like, “Dad went off to work in an office and he came back. I have no idea what he does or did.” The world’s changed. I love how you do that. Here’s what I’d love to full circle and bring us together is I know people can learn a lot more in the market and all that stuff. We could nerd out on this stuff because I love conversations with you about things that are there. I know people will be mad if I don’t ask about what are you seeing right now, trends in the market and things that you think going forward, people should be paying attention to?

The economy is going great and keep on hoarding a lot of cash because cash is real now. We’re going to go with that one. We printed how many trillions of dollars in debt. Lumber prices are a little bit up. Home prices are a little bit up because of that. Gas prices a little bit up. There’s maybe a ship shortage someplace. There’s an appliance shortage as well not because of COVID or anything like that. They got hit by the ice storm down in Texas, where they make those things. There’s a shortage there. We like turned to Venezuela, by the way. It feels weird but you’ve got to keep in mind short-term versus long-term. If you believe in America, we’re going to solve the problem regardless of who’s in DC.

In spite of sometimes hopefully, we get past that and I’m going to put on my tinfoil hat here but you’ve got more demand than there is supply in the housing market, which always leads to everything. You’ve got a cheap debt which is going to go up. You can’t have this cheaper debt for this long. People are slowly getting back to work whether they want to or not through all the unemployment stuff. There’s 5.6% unemployment is the number I saw. A lot of people that are out there should be working but aren’t because they’re making more money sitting at home than they are getting back to work. They’ll eventually get there. Wherever you go in the service industry, there’s a shortage of help.

If you work and you are service-oriented, you can clean up right now and that’s the opportunity that’s out there for everybody. If you help people solve their problem big or small, you’re going to be very well rewarded but I think short-term and I think we’re good. If you look at long-term, you look at the capital markets play right now where the index is off of the 5 and 10-year swaps, those are doubled. As we pray for more money, money becomes less or more valuable. I say cash is trash. You have to have cash. You have to have liquidity in our world to get loans but at the same time, you want to invest in something that produces more cash to keep up with inflation.

The debt play is it has to have rising interest rates to keep up with that debt because the yields are so small right now. Who wants to put a billion dollars into play at a 1% right now? Nobody. In order to attract that capital to buy more debt, you have to increase what you’re going to pay. It’s common sense. Somebody has to pay for it. Who’s going to pay for it? What are they in demand return for their dollars or their currency of choice? Rates are going to go up. Hopefully, supply and demand normalize here a little bit. I’m hoping that lumber prices go down a little bit because I need to put on a fence and eventually build a house.

BCS 46 | Commercial Lending

Commercial Lending: Commercial lending is a lot of money, frustration, and time. If you go down this path and figured out halfway through the transaction that this is not the right deal for you, you’ve lost.


It’s going to be interesting. You joked about Nashville but I think there are some pocketed markets were for those out there and still investing, it’s still a great place. What I would encourage is to get expert advice. Find some advisors. Build your team around you and make sure that you’re ready to go into this market because what I’ve learned is in surrounding yourself with the right people and the right team, you start to make much more informed decisions. You find out things that you didn’t know existed and that’s the way you win. People are going to have questions. They’re going to want to find you after this because you’ve dropped some teasers. I love to bring in some of the things that you do, but where can people find you after the show to make sure that they’re following along your journey but also to learn more?

Our company’s website is That shows our team and anything in the world of commercial lending or investing. We strive to educate, empower and amplify wealth for real estate investors. There are a lot of resources there in that world. We’ve got a great team around us to be able to help folks out there. My personal website mirrors that as You can find me on socials. I’m out there. I post a lot on what’s going on. If anyone is interested in the Golf Sanctuary, it’s simply and you will be able to find out what’s going on there. I’m easy to find. Reach out and I’m happy to help you out in any way I can.

You’ve dropped some good knowledge that I think people are always looking for. It is like, “How do we learn? How do we grow?” Even when we were creating the show, it was all about how do we learn and grow together. Hopefully, you guys have found the value in that. Follow along with Billy. I know he’s been a huge asset to me and my family. He has helped me learn things about this and save money here and learn how to invest strategically. Make sure you’ve got people in your corner like this. This is why we bring people on like Billy. I want to make sure that we’re empowering each of you.

You may not know these people personally, but now you do. Now you’re connected up. Reach out to us. It’s so much fun to do these. Thank you for coming on sharing some personal stuff. What you’re doing out there and I can attest, you’re doing some great things. I love the abundance mentality that you have. It aligns up with me because not everybody I’ve talked to will get their home financing through us at loanDepot, but that’s okay too. We’re going to help them make the best decision for themselves, their family and there’s enough to go around.

If you help everyone, get what they want, you’ll get what you want. That’s a Jim Rohn quote right there for you.

It’s a good one. Thank you. I can’t wait to see you soon. Make sure you like, subscribe and leave a comment. Let us know of any other guests that you’d like to have on. Reread this one. There is a lot of great information. I hope you guys will tune in to the next one. We will see you in the next episode.

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